Taling the Boogieman off the Shelf

I see little difference between what Bin Laden says and what Democrats regulary say.

"I believe ... that this war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing anything, as is shown by the extreme violence in Iraq this week," Reid told journalists.

The violence in Anbar has gone down despite the surge, not because of the surge. The inability of American soldiers to protect these tribes from al Qaeda, said to these tribes: "We have to fight al Qaeda ourselves."  Chuck Shumer

Today, we are hearing and seeing dire warnings of the worst potential catastrophe in the history of human civilization: a global climate crisis that is deepening and rapidly becoming more dangerous than anything we have ever faced.      Al Gore

"Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood," said Jack Murtha of Pennsylvania, a decorated Marine Corps veteran who served in Vietnam and is among the most influential Democratic voices on military matters. "This is going to be a very, very bad thing for the United States."

I really see no reason the "neocons" need a bin laden tape when the Democratic Party supplies them with a never ending supply of vitriol.

Firstly, let me just remind people that the occupation of Iraq was unjustified and unwarranted.  Let us not approach this as some kind of hero mission gone wrong.  Our soldiers are there because of an ideology disqusied in glory words (democracy, fredom, virtue, righteouness...and so forth) but the planners of this mission underestimated the people's will not to be dominated in that region, just as they did every other time and in every other place they tried to "impose" their will upon them. 

The goal has been to instill a generational spirit of defeat, and acceptance of oppression and occupation, and not democracy in the MidEast.  Please note that when the people elect a government through fair and honest elections, and that governement is not "friendly" to western interests, the west underminds it, and installs anyone friendly to them, including brutal dictators, and passive, weak negotiatiors who only have their best interests in mind rather than the people they claim to represent.  And...at least as long as I have been alive, there has been the trying through various means,  but the people get hardened to ther treatment, but the memories are not lost.  We are dealing with a people, generations of suffering, who now rise up in the spirit of survival and hope...one battle at a time.  One must surely understand, that practice makes perfect...and one day, the oppressors will either kill everyone, or the oppressed will become the victorious.  To a people who have been denied justice, and many people turned a blind eye to their treatment, it does not matter which...just so the fight goes on, to it's end, and they are not the slaves.

Now... tell me what is the purpose of this occupation?  In other words, why you support this war and repeat the propaganda against those who dissent as being supportive of the "enemy"?  What does Iraq look like "when the job is done"?

You see, no one, including the water bearers for the Neocon ever answer those questions.  It seems to me that if...say...General Motors just built a product because the felt like it, without doing extensive research and development and did not predict outcomes beforehand, and even while into the manufature of the product they found flaws in technique or manufature of that product did not make corrections, but kept doing the same, except more of it, there would be no more General Motors today.

So tell me, after almost 4000 of our soldiers dead, many more physically wounded, and all bear the scars of seeing the worst in humanity, what did we get in return?  After hundreds of thousands of Iraqis being killed, displaced, and disinfranchied, and many without basic survival needs such as clean water or electrics in the hot weather, what does "democracy" mean to them?  Iraq has a population of 25 million people, almost 4 million of them are dead, disinfranchised, displaced, or suffering gravely.  Tell me which side they are going to choose...us, or the terrorists.  Tell me how 300 billion (and counting) dollars spent was used?  What do we have to show for it?  Do you think that General Motors could have survived if they would have spent 300 billion dollars and had absolutly nothing to show for the money?

So... you are right, we don't need Usama.  Certianly the terrorists don't need him.  al Qui'da is an ideological life unto itself, and bin Laden is simply a figurehead to them. The fearmongers in this country need Usama to keep people from rational thought and common sence. The boogieman is rolled out in a typical marketing campaign style, right when there is a major debate about this occupation happening.  The right wing pundits know what to say, trumpeting up the villian.  Giving Usama more "life" than he would give you.

Usama pegged the neocons right.  He attacked us (if this is totally true) because he knew how GWB would react.  We have fallen into the clutches of the terrorists, doing their bidding all by ourselves.  We are the ones who react in fear, and cringe in the corner as we readily and willingly hand over our rights and privacies to the Neocon savior.  We, in the spirit of fear, have done more to destory our democracy than any terrorist act could have ever dreamed.  And then...  we have the nerve to vilifiy those who do not bow to oppression and occupation, probably because we wish we were as brave as they, and honestly give up our lives for our beliefs.

Usama bin Laden is irrelavent to everyone except those who pull him off the shelf to instill fear.  Guess who that be?

Indie...

sometimes the term "conspiricy theroy" is used as a pejoritive to vilify people who do not repeat the party line.  I may be nutzo, but it does seem that Usama bin Laden aways makes a video right when there is a major debate about the occupation.  Please note that Usama made quite a bit less vids when the Republicans were the majority in the House and Senate, and the Neocons didn't really have to try hard in debate to get their way.  It seemed then that the only time Usama was "rolled out" was during elections, and when we had a conflict as to whether to give up a freedom or a privacy.  Now, the neocons have to fight tooth and nail to justify what they do, and need (it seems to me) to bring up the threat level to distract us from rational thought, and have a "foundation" to base their empty debate on.  This is just my personal observation, and I think it is a rational, reasonable, and intelligent observation.  I am making not claims, and making no accusations.

Or maybe, I just ain't buying the fear thing anymore.

cromag-mag,

Will Bu$h appease Democrats as much as he has Osama....

He HAS been the greatest recruiting tool for al-Qaeda, and is doing just what Osama wanted him to do.......and he has been the greatest fund raising tool for al-Qaeda...

You are right cromag, Bu$h is appeasing Osama just like he is appeasing the Democrats...

BTW, 2190 days and Osama is STILL FREE!

Oh, yeah, you are still cowardly ducking the question....

How many dead ragheads are enough?
(Let's not even count bin Laden, because we know like you and Bu$hCo, his goal is to destroy Constitutional America).

How many?

zany says:  I watch the rollout of new products, specificlly movies.  Note that they have critics talking, they offer previews and lots of advertising before hand to make you "anticipate" the product.  Does anyone see the parallels here.

Yeah, kind of like someone tell you that you have misquoted some and mistated thier position with backing up with facts.  It's pretty sad zany.......

And yes, 'christian' fundie Bu$h needs fundie 'muslim' Osama, with him there is no NeoCON Crusade to murder innocents and blunder their resourses.

The Bu$h's have and still are LONG term BUSINESS partners with the same interest.....destroy the Constitutional America.......

Plus it keeps cromag-man peeing his pants........like the little  cry baby that he is.....

Zan

Now... tell me what is the purpose of this occupation?  In other words, why you support this war and repeat the propaganda against those who dissent as being supportive of the "enemy"?  What does Iraq look like "when the job is done"?

What Iraq looks like "when the job is done" depends mostly on the Iraqi people. It helps little when "dissenters" pick isolated incidents (Haditha, Abu Grahib etc) and in a dillusional hatred for the President paint this as the norm rather than the exception. Whens the last time MSM did a report on the successes rather then the challenges faced by the miltary?

So tell me, after almost 4000 of our soldiers dead, many more physically wounded, and all bear the scars of seeing the worst in humanity, what did we get in return?  After hundreds of thousands of Iraqis being killed, displaced, and disinfranchied, and many without basic survival needs such as clean water or electrics in the hot weather, what does "democracy" mean to them?  Iraq has a population of 25 million people, almost 4 million of them are dead, disinfranchised, displaced, or suffering gravely.  Tell me which side they are going to choose...us, or the terrorists.  Tell me how 300 billion (and counting) dollars spent was used?  What do we have to show for it?  Do you think that General Motors could have survived if they would have spent 300 billion dollars and had absolutly nothing to show for the money?

When Sadaam was in power most of the infrastructure was in shambles unless directly beneficial to Sadaam and hiis followers. As for your "statistics" there is an old saying figures lie and lier's figure. Their has always been those with their hand in the cookie jar no matter where. To throw out 300 billion and expect no misuse of funds would bo no different than asking where all the money sent to the Louisiana pre and post Katrina has gone. Millions of dollars were spent to improve the very levies that were unable to prevent the disaster. Yes if the evil corporation General Motors had spent 300 million and had nothing to show for it they probably wouldn't survive, unfortunately, under our form of government we just raise taxes(a favorite of the democrats) and throw around more money.

So... you are right, we don't need Usama.  Certianly the terrorists don't need him.  al Qui'da is an ideological life unto itself, and bin Laden is simply a figurehead to them. The fearmongers in this country need Usama to keep people from rational thought and common sence. The boogieman is rolled out in a typical marketing campaign style, right when there is a major debate about this occupation happening.  The right wing pundits know what to say, trumpeting up the villian.  Giving Usama more "life" than he would give you.

When will the peacful Muslims,aound the world, march in protest against the suicide bombings and killings perpetrated in their name by this organization? It seems organizations,such as CARE, are more concerned with the inconveniences they feel are directed toward "good" Muslims and less concerned with addressing those who attack the very freedoms they enjoy in America.

Or maybe, I just ain't buying the fear thing anymore.

And maybe you are.

You buy into the left wing talkings points. Evil corporations that supply the goods and services that I presume drew you to this country. Big Pharma that supplies those drugs and cures that improve the quality of life.

So unlike most countries in the world you are allowed to voice dissent and despite what the "conspiracy theorists' say you wont be getting a knock on the door and hauled off to prison.

The worst you will have to endure is Adam's name calling and childish rants if you happen to hold an opinion other than his.

And best of all America offers you the opportunity to leave if things are so much better elsewhere.

Postman...in reply to my article, you stated...

What Iraq looks like "when the job is done" depends mostly on the Iraqi people. It helps little when "dissenters" pick isolated incidents (Haditha, Abu Grahib etc) and in a dillusional hatred for the President paint this as the norm rather than the exception. Whens the last time MSM did a report on the successes rather then the challenges faced by the miltary?

This very statement begs a question.  If everything depends on the Iraqis, then why are we still there?  I mean, since you have to find something "good, righteous, honourable, and virtuous" in all this, our military performed without flaw in taking out the madman, Saddam Haussain and his minions.  That was done in quick time.  In other words, the military phase of this mission is already completed.  Remembering that the Iraqis voted in the government they have now, in free, and fair elections, and...well...according to the media, is a sovriegn nation.  Isn't that "fact" a positive media report?  Our military liberated an oppressed nation from the clutches of a dictator. 

Please note that I did not pick any "specific incidents", but stated a general fact about the situation in which you did not dispute directly.  However, since you mention it.... I remember the incident at Haditha in which 24 of someone's neighbours, friends, lovedones, were killed.  I remember Abu Guahib, in which men were humiliated purposely and scientificly, using cultural and religious "sensitivities" rather than being random incidences.  These practices were the usual treatment in all of the "detention centres run by the US military, and Abu Guahib is just the one we know.  Do you think the neighbours of the 24 people killed are going to think highly of the occupiers?  Do you think all of those prison detainees, especially (and we know that thousands...including women have been released from detention) those who have been tortured and humiliated are going to go home to their families and say how well they have been treated by the occupiers?  I think not dear Mr postman.  And only God knows how many other "isolated incidences" that we don't know about all over Iraq.

You stated in reply to my post also...

When Sadaam was in power most of the infrastructure was in shambles unless directly beneficial to Sadaam and hiis followers. As for your "statistics" there is an old saying figures lie and lier's figure. Their has always been those with their hand in the cookie jar no matter where. To throw out 300 billion and expect no misuse of funds would bo no different than asking where all the money sent to the Louisiana pre and post Katrina has gone. Millions of dollars were spent to improve the very levies that were unable to prevent the disaster. Yes if the evil corporation General Motors had spent 300 million and had nothing to show for it they probably wouldn't survive, unfortunately, under our form of government we just raise taxes(a favorite of the democrats) and throw around more money.    

If the goal of the Neocon was to bring "stability" and "democracy" to the MidEast, after Saddam was taken out, why wasn't the army of "winning hearts and minds" filled with engineers, builders, scientists, and teachers?  It seems that books, wrenches, hammers and nails are a better weapon than guns and tanks. Wouldn't it have been much cheaper, and alot less lives lost, families destroyed, people maimed or killed, and generational  pain of those who lost to help the Iraqis fix their infrastructure...you know, with Iraqi workers instead of American "no bid contract corporations"?  Isn't giving men work, helping to modernize their physical way of life (and accepting their culture and religious beleifs) building schools, hospitals, modernizing their electrical and sanitation grids much more appeling than having foriegn soldiers kicking in their doors, and bombing them in the midnight as they sleep?  Isn't it more appeling to Iraq's neighbours to find an example of what Americans "say" they represent, rather than the chaos they were so warned of before the occupation?  Isn't giving people, through their own work hope and oppuritunity a better "propagnada tool" than trying to instill a mindset of defeat and acceptance of occupation if your goal is to make them your friends?  To me at least, hope and oppurtunity are the best weapons against the terrorists.  What do you think? 

You also posted in your last stringer....

When will the peacful Muslims,aound the world, march in protest against the suicide bombings and killings perpetrated in their name by this organization? It seems organizations,such as CARE, are more concerned with the inconveniences they feel are directed toward "good" Muslims and less concerned with addressing those who attack the very freedoms they enjoy in America.

I guess my last post paragraphs sums this one up too.  Again, the best weapon against terror is hope and oppurtunity.  To busy the hands of the formerly oppressed with the building of their own future, and not simply to replace one tyrant with another.  Remember...every tyrant dresses up his justification is glory words and patriotism...but still he is a tyrant unless he rules by giving people hope, gives the people choices in their path, gives them the tools and training they need to design their own future, and encourages them through oppurtunity. 

If I am the only one on this planet who does not give a damned about Usama bin Laden has to say, a man hiding because he knows the justice he needs to face for his evil...then let that be.  I am a free woman...I can come out and enjoy the sunshine of God's creation.  I need not hide in caves.  All of the minions he has in the world makes him as free as I.  So no...I am not afraid.  I think that Americans, if they cherish their freedom as much as I, should not give a damned about him either. 

Every moment you fear death...is a moment you miss the blessing of life. 

It seems to me the support of those building schools, hospitals and attepmting to give the "gift" of freedom should be supported rather than justifying those who blow up schools, hospitals and opress in the name of the "religion of peace"

It's easy to sit back and micro-manage each and every mistake made along the path. Their were those who said Japan and Germany would never become the countries they are today.

It's time for Muslims to leave their stone age existance behind. Its time for peaceful Muslims to stand up and stop the killing in the name of Islam.

Look around the world and tell me why Muslims are in involved in conflicts in : Afghanistan, Bosnia, Cyprus, East Timor, India, Indonesia, Kashmir, Kosovo, Kurdistan, Macedonia, Nigeria, Pakistan, Phillipines, Russia, Sudan, Thailand and Uganda just to name a few. 

And yet peaceful Muslims worldwide sit quietly by and say little.

So once again one of the great freedoms allowed by America is the freedom to leave if one feels there are better places to live. 

indie...

I read your link and found myself in the wrong here by saying this...

"Please note that Usama made quite a bit less vids when the Republicans were the majority in the House and Senate, and the Neocons didn't really have to try hard in debate to get their way. 

Thank you for bringing me to the right. 

I read another article which does not justify my error (and I am not trying to)  but in the article, please note these two important statements.  I am quoting from them directly here to make my point.  Ouoting the article i read directly....

"American officials said the U.S. government had obtained a copy even though the video had not been posted yet by al-Qaida, and intelligence agencies were studying the video to determine whether it was authentic and to look for clues about bin Laden's health."

 and in another place in the same article...

"The United States intercepted the video before it was released on Islamic Web sites where al-Qaida usually posts its messages, a U.S. counterterrorism official said in Washington. U.S. officials had analyzed the video for hours before transcripts and videos were leaked, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue."

Now, someone enlighten me...this dumb woman about this.  If Usama bin Laden is so much of a threat, and the US intelligence community can "intercept" these videos before they are "released on "Islamic websites" (quoting article here only, but actually am angered to no end that the article referances these terror sites as "Islamic"), then shouldn't they be able to stop transaction to it's intended address?  If "supposedly" there are vieled threats, or a propaganda tool of the al Qui'da members, wouldn't it be more prudent to intercept them, and prevent them from appering on these terrorist websites?  In fact, it brings up another question...Why, if the US intelligence network knows of these terror webpages, why are they not put out of business, and thier originators placed in jail?  We don't seem to "extend" the right to free speech to others who make terror threats, why does it seem to "extend" to those who make them on the Internet?

From the same article I referance an observation, related by viewers of the video itself.

"During the video, bin Laden's image moves for only a total of about 3 1/2 minutes in two segments, staying frozen the rest of the time while his remarks continue.

A former senior U.S. intelligence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said it might have resulted from a technical glitch while al-Qaida passed the video through a variety of computer sites to mask its cyber trail."

The article said that the video lasted 30 minutes. Of course, the observation's explaination might be true...I can't dispute this, however, the "new look" of Usama, his references to "the mortgage crisis" (in the US), and Norm Chomsky seem like a Neocon marketing stradegy than something a fugitive, being hunted by everyone and their mothers, with a bounty on his head would do.  Again, no accusations, just the observations of a dumb old woman.

Here is what I misread, again from this same article.

But the appearance of bin Laden this year makes a bigger splash. The al-Qaida leader had not appeared in new video footage since October 2004, and he had not put out an audiotape in more than a year, his longest period without a message.

His deputy, Egyptian-born Ayman al-Zawahri, has issued numerous videos and audiotapes in the meantime as al-Qaida has increased the sophistication and speed of its media operations.

However, this does not excuse my misstep.

Here is the link to the article I read for your review.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/bin-laden-jeers-at-us-government/20070906175609990001