When Is a Rose Not a Rose? When Growing One Requires Policy!
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Posted By: CLB Posted on: Apr. 29, 2008 at 8:53 AM |
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"I want freedom from government intruding on my privacy, and you want the security of the government bending the Constitution to keep you safe from terrorists. You reflexively call any move of government to safeguard the public welfare as an example of the Nanny State. Then the next moment you defend the right of government to wiretap, to incarcerate, to punish, and to torture because you're told it is for our protection. I guess you hate it when mommy wants to take care of you, but you have no problem doing what daddy tells you to do. Why is it wrong for government to provide for those that need it, but it's O.K. for government to intrude on our privacy, legislate morality, and mete out punishment?"
Why is that comment most interesting? Because it goes to the core of policy regardless of issue; the difference in policy is who is ultimately served and at what cost to those (or that) which will provide resources, goods and services.
If you value the environment as an integrated system on which you are dependent, then extracting resources that damage the integrity will have a high perceived cost. If you don't value the integrity of the environment, but see it as personal property, then the property from which it is exrtracted will have a high cost and the damage to related systems will have a low cost, and so on.
Regardless of who or what a policy serves it starts with a valuation of those served, and materials and services, via a lens of perceived and attributed "values" or what those things mean to people.
Is the problem then, the cost of the services, or the valuation ("values") through which costs are perceived?
Can policy be well-crafted when the values of those involved do not seem to be shared?
And what about "moral" values related to belief systems like religion? Where can values that vary from belief system to belief system have a place in policy that affects many with differing values?
Comments:
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Apr. 29, 2008 at 02:31:44 PM
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| I agree, HC, but I don't despair. My life long experience on this planet has proven to me one thing-- you haven't lost until one of two things happens-- you die or you stop working for your goals. Many people ask em the same thing-- what can we do-- and they are scared of the disciplinarian attitude the culture SEEMS to be taking. But I believe it is superficial. American people agree with the words they hear conservatives mouth, but they don't understand that those words are distoreted to get them to vote what seems like "common sense policy" but is instead, deeply destructive pro-fascist reregulation of assets from workers to owners under the guise of Americanism. Sunday on my show I discussed and demonstrated how conservatives use cognitive tricks to change how people hear their policy issues-- tricking them into voting for things that were they presented in straightforward language that didn't require a Phd. in linguistics to decode, they would never agree to support! That's part of what I am pointing out with this post. When policy is presented in terms of disguised values, many people don't understand that their own values are being ignored. It seems complicated or overwhelming but allowing destructive policy to get through Congress unexamined is worse. I discuss these things often on my show. You should tune in or stream from you computer this upcoming Sunday and better- you should call in with your comments and suggestions. |
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Apr. 29, 2008 at 02:41:31 PM
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| That's a great comment Cynthia . . . mind if I use it? Hispanic Woman, a terrorist is a person who employs tactics specifically meant to instill fear at large in response to threats real or imagined. Terrorism is utilized as much as a method of governing than it is a method to resist government. By this definition, it's not a choice between our government and terrorists; it's a choice between two different flavors of terrorists. |
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Apr. 29, 2008 at 03:01:54 PM
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[This is a reply to comment by www.MoronInCharge.com on Apr. 29, 2008 at 02:41:31 PM]
www.MoronInCharge.com
Apr. 29, 2008 at 02:41:31 PM That's a great comment Cynthia . . . mind if I use it? Hispanic Woman, a terrorist is a person who employs tactics specifically meant to instill fear at large in response to threats real or imagined. Terrorism is utilized as much as a method... View this Comment Whatever it was I said yes, of course, feel free to use it! |
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Apr. 29, 2008 at 04:15:14 PM
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[This is a reply to comment by CLB on Apr. 29, 2008 at 03:01:54 PM]
CLB
Apr. 29, 2008 at 03:01:54 PM Whatever it was I said yes, of course, feel free to use... View this Comment Actually I was referring to this: "I want freedom from government intruding on my privacy, and you want the security of the government bending the Constitution to keep you safe from terrorists. You reflexively call any move of government to safeguard the public welfare as an example of the Nanny State. Then the next moment you defend the right of government to wiretap, to incarcerate, to punish, and to torture because you're told it is for our protection. I guess you hate it when mommy wants to take care of you, but you have no problem doing what daddy tells you to do. Why is it wrong for government to provide for those that need it, but it's O.K. for government to intrude on our privacy, legislate morality, and mete out punishment?" |
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Apr. 29, 2008 at 05:02:18 PM
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[This is a reply to comment by www.MoronInCharge.com on Apr. 29, 2008 at 04:15:14 PM]
www.MoronInCharge.com
Apr. 29, 2008 at 04:15:14 PM Actually I was referring to this: "I want freedom from government intruding on my privacy, and you want the security of the government bending the Constitution to keep you safe from terrorists. You reflexively call any move of government to... View this Comment That is your comment from the general comments to my show and to which I was referring and so why would ask me if you could use it? I must be missing something here. Let's move on. |
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Apr. 29, 2008 at 05:12:10 PM
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[This is a reply to comment by CLB on Apr. 29, 2008 at 05:02:18 PM]
CLB
Apr. 29, 2008 at 05:02:18 PM That is your comment from the general comments to my show and to which I was referring and so why would ask me if you could use it? I must be missing something here. Let's move... View this Comment Cynthia, You are a beautiful woman with a brilliant mind and an infectious laugh, but this one flew right over you. I'll start over . . . with the appropriate internet slang and emoticons included: That's a great comment Cynthia . . . mind if I use it? LOL!!! ;-D |
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Apr. 29, 2008 at 07:33:41 PM
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| CLB wrote "American people agree with the words they hear conservatives mouth, but they don't understand that those words are distoreted to get them to vote what seems like "common sense policy" but is instead, deeply destructive pro-fascist reregulation of assets from workers to owners under the guise of Americanism." Garsh, us bitter folk clinging to religion and guns are so lucky to have you Progryssve elites spin out some double-speak "proving" everything we know to be true is exactly the opposite. When we argue against confiscatory taxes to be used for government backed social engineering we are supporting the plutocracy. When we object to the power of government being used to extract taxes to support political candidates we disagree with we are asking for less freedom. When we fight against government dictatorship of our health care we are asking for more government control. How thoughtless of conservatives to reject your vision of nirvanna. At least Big Brother had the good sense to torture Winston before he told him 2 + 2=5. Your stuck with "agree with me or your stupid." |
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Apr. 29, 2008 at 08:24:28 PM
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| Garsh, us bitter folk clinging to religion and guns are so lucky to have you Progryssve elites spin out some double-speak "proving" everything we know to be true is exactly the opposite. There you go again-- unable to create a reasoned response you resort to what you think is sarcasm. It is not. It is a sad but perfect regurgitation of nonsense speak. You have no idea what you actually wrote means. You d]have no idea what progressive is or our value system. You have no idea what an elite is, except as the word is taped into any phrase including liberal (it really is amazing to listen to conservative speak and how simply that cut and paste think rolls off the tongue). When we argue against confiscatory taxes there is no such thing as a confiscatory tax in the United States, unless you read conservative think-tank jargon -- the sources that created it to explain their theory that needs to be in place to convince otherwise logical people it is: to be used for government backed social engineering we are supporting the plutocracy. PLUTOCRACY: A plutocracy is a form of government where the state's power is centralized in an affluent social class. The degree of economic inequality is high while the level of social mobility is low. When we object to the power of government being used to extract taxes to support political candidates we disagree with we are asking for less freedom. Point of information-- exact amount of tax dollars "extracted" by the feds to elect candidates please? But this I suppose is acceptable: WASHINGTON -- Sen. David Vitter, R-La., earmarked $100,000 in a spending bill for a Louisiana Christian group that has challenged the teaching of Darwinian evolution in the public school system and to which he has political ties. When we fight against government dictatorship of our health care Excuse me?! Why are you so threatened by helping people you don't know? we are asking for more government control. How thoughtless of conservatives to reject your vision of nirvanna. I know conservatives feel suffering is character-building but I am committed to ensuring the only ones who suffer thanks to their policies-- are conservatives. Nirvanna is obviously for those whoare not masochistic and enjoy being alive. Your stuck with "agree with me or your stupid." No actually, you're the one stuck with being stupid. |
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Apr. 29, 2008 at 11:45:46 PM
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But right now the pendelum has swung toward a stern father government. That scares me.
It scares me when the government's bending of the Constitution is presented as defending me against terrorism.
I am much more scared of this government than of any terrorists, real or conjured.
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