Pray 2 hours before arrival of your flight.

It helps me, if not others, when you explain your religion a bit more.  Like in this case, is it required to pray like that, i.e., would a devout person do it, or all people, etc?  Or was it one of the several times in the day one is supposed to pray, regardless of where one is?  Would women also pray like that?

To me it is immaterial if such praying is required or not . . . we say we have freedom of religion . . . freedom from religious prosecution, and no established state religion or religious test to hold office (I believe these last two are in the Constitution, but I'm not going to stop and look it up).

Overall, I would say we need more people to pray not fewer, heh heh.  I used to pray a lot when the teacher handed out a test.  I prayed harder when I was at sea in a storm.

But it is not a joking matter.  If the facts are as you present above, I would say some people over reacted, or showed their xenophobia.  Of course, on another plane, they took a woman off for breast-feeding her infant.  What a culture!

And you likely know not to believe much of anything you hear on KTAR (Keep Talking All Republican).  They have had numerous "talkers" who make stuff up (like their hero, Rush) and others who believe Internet rumors (like the guy who spent an hour asking if Jessica Lynch should get the Congressional Medal of Honor, right after her rescue, because some Morons made up stories about her shooting the enemy, etc., all fiction).  I have to say this in the past tense because I seldom listen to that station any more.  If they are getting better, in the sense of more accurate, like a real news station, I might do so again, but don't know today.

For the record, I have travelled to a few Muslim dominated coutries many years ago, something I likely could not do in safety today, at least not walking around the streets of Tunis or Tripoli by myself, for example, as I could then.  I wonder how much of the hatred on both sides is driven by intolerance, selfish hatred (my way or no way), the aforementioned xenophobia, ignorance, or guilt by association . . . and how much is fueled by some type of "leader," be it a secular or religious one, firing up followers to associate something like an "enemy" status to people we don't know much about?  This applies to all "sides" in this type of debate . . . or is it human nature to always have some group to look down on, hate, or persecute? (The Great Spirit help us all if this is true!).

I always think ignorance is dangerous and that applies to any country, culture, religion or people.  I have been overseas to places where people argued with me, or blamed me for something, because my government did something that was unpopular there, and they just blamed me, as an American; as if it was MY fault.  My counter that I did not control the whole country didn't matter.  I recall thinking that if these critics (and some of them were very threatening) really knew me, they would likely find common ground, and that we weren't much different.

I am rambling now and will stop.  It is Thanksgiving but my company has not arrived yet, and I proclaim that I have indeed done my share of preparation.  I am guessing that you blog what you do in a sincere attempt to communicate with others from different backgrounds . . . if so, keep it up, some people read it! 

Write on!

--KZ

Kevin

If you are a practicing religious person, I think that whatever the ritual be, you are required to do it.  Yes, we are REQUIRED to pray 5 times daily as a part of religious practice.  It does not matter if the men in the airport terminal felt that they were required to pray loudly and in view of the other pasengers.  Fact is, praying, no matter how it is done, or what language you pray in is not illegal.  It is the RIGHT of every person who has a foot on this American soil to pray in whatever manner they wish.  If these were three men praying loudly like Penecostal Christians, and "speaking in tongues", and shouting halleluja through the isles of the terminal, would the "concerned passenger" find this suspicious behavior as well?

Now, as a devout Muslim woman, I pray too in the airport, or the DMV  or any other public place. (if that is where I am when the time comes), however I pray silently from my seat. (but this may have more to do with modesty and or insuring that I am not inconvencing others by taking up space, blocking passageways, disrupting the processes, etc.)  If I am in my home, or amonst fellow worshipers, we pray in the formal manner.  I have to tell you all, that praying with my family at least once a day is a blessing to me.  If say, I and my husband were on a car trip together to a place far from home, we have stopped on the highway, or a rest stop and prayed formally too. 

I think that you have brought out a very good point here.  This incident was caused more by fear and "misinformation" more than anything else.

Peace Be Unto You

Zanubiyah

Just trying to pass through the TSA makes me pray and the cavity searches always bring out a very vocal "OH MY GOD"

Zanubiyah, I appreciate the cultural bridge you're trying to span, but the problem is there are not enough of you making the same effort and albeit a small handfull of radicals that make the problem much worse.

I'm not one to champian racial profiling, but in this case I see the reason for it. I know these 6 men were offended, but how many 80 year old WWII vets who fought for the right to travel without an agent of the government rifling through their bags and feeling them out are offended everyday?

"most disturbing to me, is that AFTER the men were taken off the plane, questioned and whatever else it took to deem them as safe and not a threat, they were denied passage home by the same airline carrier that they had tickets for."

I won't rehash TonyD's points. I will add that the Constitution says nothing about your right to passage on a particular airline or any airline at all. Thanks to radical Muslims we have all lost the ability to do anything but be compliant at the airport.

Once again, the Muslim community can have a tremendous influence in "building bridges" by vigorously denouncing jihadi's and purging them from the community. This would have a much more profound effect on people's perceptions of Muslims than denouncing racial profiling. Bluntly, clean your own house before complaining about your neighbors'   

First off...to "tonyd".  I am not here to banter back and forth with someone who has made up thier mind about me and my religion already.  I respectfully decline to respond to this type of message.  To me, it is counter productive and does nothing but give you a platform to keep posting more of your "misinformation".  If in the future, you wish for me to resond to you in this forum, if you wish to have concerns addressed, please post in a rational manner rather than the rhetroical spew we can hear on Fox News.  I personally have had enough of it.  And remember as you respond, these are YOUR views, not the views of "the country"

Ya know "Hunter".  really, I can understand your concerns.  I am not blaming the "concerned passenger", nor the pilot and airliner crew, and neither the police who had to respond to what they thought was going to happen.  Obviously, had these men really been up to no good and I was on the plane too, I, being Muslim would not have saved me from the same fate .  To be really honest, I would have been FIRST to die.  In thier skewed view of Islam I should know better than you how to be. 

What I am concerned about, and please review my first post, was that the "concerned passenger" did not alert the TSA or any other person concerned with security of the airport before boarding the plane.  Perhaps this whole incident could have been avoided had this happened and been investigated by people who are experts in a rational manner, rather than people who are understandably acting in fear.

Secondly, I am concerned about how the media reported the incident. (at least on KTAR)  As the moderator was reporting that the men did this on the plane, several people called tring to correct the report that the men were praying in the terminal.  The commontator rebuffed them all, saying that "I have the news reports in front of me" angrily to one of the callers.  It makes me wonder how we have become so reliant on media reports, even after several people tell us the truth. 

And finally...After the men were cleared of suspicion and found to have done nothing wrong, they were refused passage by the airline.  This was on television, and live.  I have to ask myself, after men were found non threatening and had done nothing wrong by experts, a ticket agent was able to deny them passage on a plane, even though the incident that started this did not take place on the plane.

I do not agree with the "racial profiling" thing myself.  Personally, had these men not prayed in the terminal, they might have been just some Hispanic men who were on the plane to the "concerned passenger".  This is why "racial propfiling" does not work.  We must remember (as President Bush claims) that the terrorists adapt to the counter measures used to thwart them.  Racial profiling is very simple to overcome as you well know.  I belive that there is much more we can do to get them.  Unfortuantly, if people like me (a Muslimah) is more concerned about being implicated, accused of complicity, are being harrassed and maybe being detained without cause and without civil rights more than helping in the fight to get the terrorists, I might be a bit hesitent to report suspicious behavior.  Remember, I want peace and security too.  I have a husband, children, grand children, and good friends.  The choice I make  should not be hard and there should be no hesitation at all, except, I (the Muslimah) is not the one making it hard.  We should remember not to alienate the very people that could help us most in this fight.

Hunter...I can't speak for 1 billion plus people who are Muslim.  I can only speak for me.  I know that there are many Muslims who speak out against violence and destruction, and who do much in the way of preventing it.  However, just as the Christian who is in the cafeteria line serving the displaced at the Salvation Army shows that not all Christians are like Jerry Falwell, or Pat Robertson, I Zanubiyah have my own work to do.  I speak against the radicals through my work.  

I feel that it is unfair to be burdened with the duty of speaking out against a movement of radical ideology that I have nothing to do with.  I can't answer for a person who viels himself in my faith to justify his real intentions.  I think of myself as a fairly rational person who can only think of someone who would strap on a bomb belt, get on a bus and blow himself and other innocent people up as irrational.  While the TV cameras focus on the violence because it is more dramtic and sells products, goods and services, and that promotes and stirs the hatred between us, I Zanubiyah, a voice calling for peace and rational behaviors have this forum.  And should the time come when the propaganda promotes people to act violently against Muslims, I share the same fate as those who hate you.

I am only going to come one step past halfway.  I will then know your intent by how you act.

Peace Be Unto You

Zanubiyah 

Zanubiyah,

Your being a muslimah may give you a greater acquaintance with the facts. What percentage of martyrs (shaheed) are muslim men? All the 911 hijackers were. Overall, I would guess 99% fit into the category of Muslim males. So do the Imans. 

Given these facts, why is it so terrible that airport security focuses on the people most likely to hijack planes? Time spent shaking down 80-year old Swedish grandmothers is time wasted compared to time spent interrogating a group of Muslim men. When 80-year old Swedes start crashing planes into buildings, they should get more security attention.

Your claims about only coming half way are a betrayal of your beliefs, not reporting suspicious activities violates the principals you claim to hold. It has nothing to do with how other people treat you.        

To Mr AZ Rightwinger:

It is not wise to take things to the extreme here.  Obviously and 80 year old grandmother would not have in mind to take innocent people's lives.  The problem is that we use an anedotal example to vilify a whole people.  We live in a world where victim and villan depend on who you are, what you look like, or how you pray.  This is the problem.

Do we still allow White males into government buildings without security checks?  Do we allow White men to rent moving vans without security clearence?  Or is what Tim McVey did not a terrorist attack?  Or maybe the history of the terrorist act started in 2001?  This is my point.  I am not questioning what the police did, or the airplane staff, or even this "racial profiling".  My point is racial profiling is a false security, simply because it is so easy to thwart.  Remeber that Richard Ried was not "Arab looking", and if not for some alert passengers, those evil bastards would have killed some more people.  And who knows whether he got past security because the security staff was "racially profiling" someone else at the time.

I think that all of you better wake the hell up.  While you are all looking up at the obvious, thinking that bombs and guns are going to save you from the evil ones, they will cut you off at your knees.  Do not cringe in fear of three men praying in the airport terminal, or harrass some Muslim lady because she covers her hair.  You all better be looking for the regular Joe, one who has been disinfranchised by society.  Perhaps it is one who finds excuses for his poor life, and needs to blame someone other than his own self.  Or, maybe one who can't find justice, or peace because of who he is.  These are who those voltures we call terrorists find. 

They coddle them, tell them what they want to hear.  Tell them that "It is not your fault, but thier fault".  They become thier friend and eventually thier savior. Of course, every savior needs a reason to exist, so there is an enemy, and all, whether old man, woman or child becomes an agent of the enemy.  Then, the brainwash begins.   They vilify, dehumanize all of them.   Then they train them up, give them hope in the form of hatred.   Now they dress them up just like you or I, excpet they have evil in thier heart, and in thier minds, and could give a damn about anything or anyone, except thier evil mission.  This kind of evil can't be detected on a scanner, or be hidden in a shoe.  It does not look like an Arab, nor does it kneel in the airport terminal and pray.  Regardless of who is in thier way, or who the victims may be, they could care less.  You, me, anyone.  Being Muslimah will not save me.

This my friend is the reality of the situation.  You all better grasp it, and firmly.  Terrorists get thier jollies from the fear they produce.   Thier point is not to defeat the US military.  They care little about thier own souls.  Do you think they give a good hoot about dying?  It must be a blessing to them to die because they are so tormented inside.  Or perhaps not.  They are empty, the walking dead.   Their whole purpose is to do whatever it takes to make you, John or Jane Q. American Public, to willingly hand over thier rights, privacy, and privilages to a few who call themselves "the savior", and as we do,  they rejoice, because they know even if they are defeated, those whom we have called "savior" will cherish the power you willingly handed to them and want to keep it.  They will create another enemy.  Who knows "AZWinger"...your number could be up next.

And again...I am going to only go one step past half way.  I will know your intent by how many you take toward me.  I personally will not borad the train without fighting all the way.  I hope you understand.

You have better wake up.

Zanubiyah

Zanubiyah

Have you ever had a strange noise wake you in the middle of the night? You lie there, listening intensely, hoping for a familiar sound to comfort the creeping fear it could be an intruder. After a few minutes of silence you assure yourself it was nothing and try and go back to sleep, but you can't.....you have to be sure.... so you (I hope) pick up your pistol and investigate.

My guess is the "concerned passenger" felt the same way. He/She passed some Muslim men openly praying in public and thought maybe, "thats strange, I don't see that every day". As the process of boarding the plane continued, the thoughts of 9/11 creep in. They think, hey wern't 19 of 19 hijackers that day were all Muslim. Did they pray before boarding? They used five to a plane and I just saw 5 for sure, or maybe it was 6? Are they going to hijack this plane? If they do how will I defend myself?

For the most part people go through their whole day without noticing a lot of whats going on around them, which is what make many people "victims". But once a persons attention is focused on a perceived threat, it's hard to shake the fear, and because our government has disarmed most of us, we have no choice but tell the select few with the shinny badge, loaded gun and power to remove our perceived threat for us.

But as AZRWinger pointed out Zanubiyah, Islam does have an immage problem that MUST be addressed by mainstream Islam purging the radicals on their own. Untill then even the most tolerant of people will look apon Islam with suspicion.

As to the media, they are for the most part worthless and because it's all market driven, any hope of accurate reporting is simply a pipe dream, thats why they call them "stories" instead of article. One of the biggest threats facing this country today isn't radical Islam, it's our debt and the US Comptroler David Walker is traveling from sea to sea trying to find someone that'll listen, and having no luck at all. Why? I don't know, my guess is public education has dumbed down the population so much they can't imagine how our government could go broke! All they have to do is print more money, right!

And to your final point, what airline were these men flying on? I'll re-read the few "stories" I've seen, but right now I don't recall what airline.

Why's that important? Because once these men were cleared as no threat, that airline should have put them on their next flight because it's the right thing to do. Since they didn't, I see no reason why I should support them with my hard earned flying dollar, cause it could be me next time. Will you fly that airline? I'm sure you'll find many people on this forum and forums like it that will agree and maybe boycott the offending company if you can make a well reasoned case for it. Just a thought

Peace be unto you also my friend

Dave