Lets air it out !!

Posted By: Zanubiyah
Posted on: Feb. 14, 2007 at 8:59 PM

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Hey...It came to me that the only ones that truely benefit from an attack on Iran...if successful is Isreal. We know that Isreal is prodding by them to get the US to invade Iran, lets not be bashful here, or afraid to tell the truth. So lets go for it. YEA !!! Lets invade Iran.

Of course, someone has to pay for this invasion. And it would be detrimental, and demoralizing to the troops to have to fight there to "defund" them, or thier mission. I agree. They need the best armour, the best guns, the best missles, and maybe a nuke or 2 to make sure that the Iranians don't have the capacity to make nuclear weapons...no wait, not even a bow and arrow. And I have found a way not to expand the budget to do it. Well, for a while.

Remembering that Isreal is the major beneficiary to this invasion, let us take the monies we give to them in aid, or whatever, and use it instead to do Iran. In there is anything left, they can have it. When the money that has been alloted to Isreal is gone, we simply stop shooting and pull out. Or, maybe the mega chruches who support Isreal blindly can pitch in...or maybe they can send thier members to battle the Iranians. Or maybe the AIPAC can, instead of fattening the pockets of our congressmen and senators to proxy for Isreal, they can pitch in and buy some aromurments and supply men to support thier vision.

The thing is, why should we spend our treasure, and our military on an ideological goal. Let those who have the goal support it, fund it, and fight for it if that is what they want. Of course, I am sure that the Iranians have a different idea, but that is between them and the ideologs. If my tax dollars, and the men and women of the American military are not involved, I can sleep good at night about it. And the bonus...NO MORE 700 CLUB. I am sure that Gen. Pat Robertson of the Allah Akbar Brigade (oh wait...the God is Great Brigade, cuz "Allah" is the moooon god) will be too busy in the battlefield fighting the Iranians, and ridding us of the evil Muslims.

I think now it it time to tell the truth. Put ALL the cards on the table and debate it all without being afraid. We all know what is really happening here, and now it is time to air it all out.

Zanubiyah

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	Cancelled Account Feb. 14, 2007 at 10:24:14 PM
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www.MoronInCharge.com

Feb. 15, 2007 at 01:09:28 AM

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Hey Tom and Zan, let's get real.

It's Israel, not Isreal.

I believe that AIPAC is a very power lobby group in D.C., but they come a distant second when compared to the oil lobby. Our foreign policy is for all practical purposes a consequence of the corporate oil interests. The legendary and all powerful Jewish cabal in D.C. in inconsequential by comparison. That might explain why a wider Gulf war with Iran would be disastrous to Israel, and certainly wouldn't be in AIPAC's best interest.

BTW, technically a Zionist believes that the Jewish people should have a homeland encompassing the ancient lands of Israel, nothing more, nothing less. Tom is correct that not all Zionists are Jews, but it is a safe bet that most Jews, and most Americans, are Zionists. The word is not pejorative, nor does a Zionist believe that Palestinians should not have their own homeland. That kind of Jew would be an extremist and a racist.

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	Cancelled Account Feb. 15, 2007 at 06:27:55 AM
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Feb. 15, 2007 at 08:11:29 AM

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I see another back and forth developing here.

The energy lobby and AIPAC are not allied with each other, although at times they appear to be engaged in a marriage of convenience. Removing Saddam Hussein is a case in point. Their shared interests diverged with the insurgency and civil war: good for oil, bad for Israel.

Cheney is not a member of AIPAC. Cheney could give a flying f*** about Israel (I think he might have told Olmert to go f*** himself at one time). There is no consensus in Israel and within AIPAC for a war with Iran, supposedly to remove their nuclear threat. Most Israelis are smarter than Americans when it comes to geopolitics. They see through the bulls*** and realize that provoking a war with Iran, either directly or via US proxy, is once again: good for oil, bad for Israel.

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Phaedrus

Feb. 15, 2007 at 09:40:03 AM

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Alright, jump into the Israel, AIPAC fracas;

There are 2 kinds of Zionists, those who want a Jewish state that is based in the biblical lands, and those who want a Jewish state that covers everything from Morocco east thru Egypt, the enetire middle east, and across Iran to Pakistan and Afghanistan, and in the process enslaving, killing, or driving out every Muslim.

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www.MoronInCharge.com

Feb. 15, 2007 at 10:00:03 AM

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I know Phaedrus, we've talked about this before. Technically you're right, because the word has as much specificity as the words Communism, or Democracy, or freedom; it means different things to different people.

I maintain that pan-mideastern zionism has as much similarity to true Zionism as Timothy McVeigh's version of dominionism reflects Christianity.

I am a Zionist in that I want Israel to survive within their pre-1967 borders, as was specified by the original UN mandate and reaffirmed in UN Resolutions 242 and 338. That means that every Israeli West Bank settlement must be abandoned . . . period.

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www.MoronInCharge.com

Feb. 15, 2007 at 02:37:22 PM

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This is an excellent article by Ray McGovern related to this Administration's ties to Israel:
link:[www.truthout.org]

Actually the personal connection between Israel and Bush appears to be more than I thought. Bush probably truly believes that what he is doing is in Israel's best interest. President Cheney, on the other hand, is entirely unconcerned with matters of Zionism, and to him Israel is a convenient pawn to sacrifice in a geopolitical chess game to capture the black oil-drenched queen.

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Average American

Feb. 15, 2007 at 05:50:35 PM

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SO quick are many of you to sacrifice Israel. I don't understand it. If the U.S. broke off relations with Israel it would be gone in a matter of weeks. Remember, damn near everyone in that part of the world has at one time or another vowed to "drive Israel into the sea".

It is as much strategic as it is religiously important to the U.S. to protect Israel.

And why would a country temp God so by aligning on the opposite side of Israel?

If you don't believe in God, that's one thing, but if you do, you know better than to stand against his choosen people.

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Feb. 15, 2007 at 06:50:21 PM

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You have got to be kidding me AA. Protecting Israel for strategic reasons I can understand, although not necessarily agree with. Protecting any country just because we like its religion more than another's is insane. This is why we keep church separate from state, and this is why our founding fathers were Deists - to keep us from allowing people like you to lead us into holy wars.

Why would a country go against Israel, and thus the U.S., and thus God? Maybe because the book they're reading from says God is on their side, not ours.

And as to what would happen if the US were to suddenly break off support for Israel, just remember that they stole our nuclear technology from us - their ally - and with the weapons we sold or gave to them, I think they would last more than a few weeks.

I have said previously that I am not religious (in any organized sense of the word), but I am Jewish by heritage. I get a kick how easily the Jew-disparaging jokes slip innocently from most people's mouths (sometimes even from my own), yet when convenient to an argument or ulterior motive, I suddenly become one of God's chosen people.

Please don't come to my defense on the whole Jewish and Israel thing. I'm merely countering the popular concept that all the evils in the world today are the result of AIPAC (some are, not all). But Israel has got a lot to answer for, and doesn't get a moral pass because it was founded on the ashes of the Holocaust or has been a luke-warm political friend to us (and with friends like that, who needs enemies).

It would be wise for American Jews to be as openly critical about Israeli policies as Americans in general should be about US policies. It's called tough love. Otherwise both countries are destined for a world of hurt.

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	Cancelled Account Feb. 15, 2007 at 08:06:21 PM
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