ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

Posted By: indie616
Posted on: May. 28, 2006 at 6:52 PM

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God, I am so sick of this William thing. And some freakin' smart people on this site have fallen into the trap. And you wonder how Karl Rove gets Bush and Republicans elected?! It is called distraction from the real issues. Now lest anyone think I believe that William is in anyway intentionally capable of such distractions, I do not. He is just a side show that is taking everyone's eyes off of the big picture.

As of right now, some good articles have been bastardized by reponses to William. Just look at the top 5 articles. Articles that I agree with and some I don't, but at least they make me think. I read the articles with interest and an open mind. I come back to see what insight has been posted, and sure enough, it has become another piece of advice to Willy. s***, give me a break.

Read Williams articles. If they have something new or have merit, rate it accordingly. If it is the same ole, same ole, put it in the trash. Don't respond to his posts to articles if they are not relevant.
I will admit that I have laughed heartily at some of the posts and responses that have come in response to William. I have seen the compassion that almost everyone has shown him. However, the midterms come in a few months, and we all have more at stake than being nice to a well intentioned sad sack.

We have some damned important issues in this state and country. The American people and media have just layed down and let the Bushies and neocons f**k up over 225 years of our freedoms and rule of law, noot to mention trashing the constitution.

Lets get busy!

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www.MoronInCharge.com

May. 28, 2006 at 07:45:04 PM

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Appreciate the observation Indie, and there is wisdom in your words. But I can walk and chew gum at the same time, to use that tired old phrase that the Bush administration used to justify the war in Iraq at the same time we were looking for Osama.

Fact is, William is running for office - the midterms I believe. I am very focused on the critical importance of these elections. Although William does not play much of role, as of yet, on the national political scene - perhaps some day he will. I want the absolute best men and women for the job. Better for William to realize now that he is embarking upon a difficult, time-consuming, often thankless career. I will demand that our future politicians are up to the job. "It's hard work."

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indie616

May. 28, 2006 at 08:28:02 PM

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MIC, You made a great point to William about posting nonsensical articles (such as "It is Sunday now") to point out that his doing so takes important topics from the front page.

It has nothing to do with the ability to chew gum and walk at the same time. (And by the way, the Iraq war and catching Osama hasn't worked so well; that may be a bad example) It has everything to do with keeping the important issues at the forefront.

You, I and everyone but William knows that he will never be elected to office. And I sure haven't seen anything that resembles an exchanging of ideas with him from anyone on VoA. So, why waste the time? Debate with AA. Debate with Tonyd. Debate with Ohio Nut Case. Debate with Lib and Con (although I think he has enough on his hands debating with himself), but don't waste time on William.

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Lib and Con

May. 28, 2006 at 08:51:56 PM

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I don't rate anything here(this is not a pulitzer prize winning nobel laureate contest), but I really can't stand the superiority and arrogance that reeks of so many of you here. Indie616 for example.

Do some of you really think your s*** don't stink as you portray yourselves?

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indie616

May. 28, 2006 at 09:05:02 PM

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L & Con,
If I was arrogant and "superior" I wouldn't care what others had to say. My point is, I DO, and some people take away time from good debate.

As far as your point of view, I see you post some darned conflicting arguments. Just look at your screen name......Be proud, you live up to it.

BTW, wasn't it you that was complaining about getting low scores?

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Lib and Con

May. 28, 2006 at 09:21:45 PM

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Leave that alone. Give me a zero on every single one. I don't care.

How many times do I have to say(can't you get it), that I value LIB ideas and Con ideas. One cannot be superior to another all the time. I think I said that many times. Of course I didn't mean to make it seem like I was debating myself.

That is the absolute reason for LIB and CON. How in the world can you be fully liberal on everything or fully conservative and still elicit fairness on every issue. You can't.

Independents? Who are they? Nothing solid on anything.
I don't jump around on things like some do. I have made my positions clear on all things that were ever brought up. Sure there is going to be conflict and nothing is absolute just like I hear from the convoluted talk on Air America every day. Just like I hear on the Conservative talk shows. NO Conservative has the mold for universal catch-all fair viewpoints and what to do for the economy, gays, workers, the energy crisis, Iraq, the military, student loans, welfare, you name it.
Some people want to take things to the highest stratosphere possible where there is no rational basis for it.
Some guy here wants me to read the 9-11 report. GEEZ, I've read all that. I don't get in to conspiracy theories and I don't get in to the dark days of Hitler or FDR and Japan to even begin to rationalize a conspiracy about 9-11 now. But, unfortunately, it is the Liberal crowd that plucks all these things out of the sky and puts it together as a possible conspiracy. Oliver Stone is a Liberal.
No, for the most part I don't have much faith in Liberals or Conservatives. They both have a self serving agenda and most of them when elected to Congress fall prey to the perks and privileges and opportunities of being a Congressman.
I can say the same thing about Willy. I am very passionate about helping the down and out as much as anyone. I really feel for people who are down and out and hard for them to get back up.
That is why I really don't have much faith in William doing what he is doing. I can say the same things that I will represent all equally. The realities change when you are in office. You have others to compromise with and what you say is not the only rosy things to be considered.

Sorry, didn't mean to debate myself.

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indie616

May. 28, 2006 at 09:44:17 PM

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What is the difference between being a Lib and Con and an Independent?
To quote you: "That is the absolute reason for LIB and CON. How in the world can you be fully liberal on everything or fully conservative and still elicit fairness on every issue. You can't." That is the very definition of an Independent. Not as you say "Independents? Who are they? Nothing solid on anything"

You have written some strong pieces about standing up for yourself (or others), but then you write a self pity piece.
You can't have it both ways.And when you do, you are just debating yourself.

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indie616

May. 28, 2006 at 10:00:08 PM

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Everyone: What are your thoughts on:
1) Healthcare
2) The Iraq war. Was it justified? Was it conducted right? Do you feel like you were told the truth before the war began?
3) Signing statements by the President?
4) Spying on Americans?
5) The growing national debt?
6) Do tax cuts cut the deficit or contribute to the deficit?
7) Are the tax cuts fair?
8) Outsourcing of jobs?
9) The status of education in America?
10) Corruption in our government?

These are the issues of our time.

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AZ Moderate

May. 28, 2006 at 10:00:47 PM

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indie616, the main point of your article is well taken. And you are in good company – my wife took one look at one of Williams offerings and said much the same thing.

But William has become more than a distraction. He has become a stumbling block. A stumbling block that has to be dealt with. As www.MoronInCharge.com has pointed out, William's rapid fire spam moves the interesting articles about serious issues quickly down the queue and off the end into the archive queue.

While I have to agree with you that "... good articles have been bastardized by reponses (sic) to William.” William has bastardized the site itself with his spamming and use of our site as his own personal campaign billboard. He needs to know that we are upset with that and that we can do something about it if he doesn't back off.

But you are right - the message has been sent and it is time to stop letting it be a distraction from valid issues. If he persists, then the next step is to unite and vote him off the site.

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AZ Moderate

May. 28, 2006 at 10:13:06 PM

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Lib and Con, you say “… I don't get in to the dark days of Hitler …”. Well, you may very well be moving into just such dark days. Broaden your scope and let history be your teacher.

George Santayana, a notable philosopher, coined the phrase, "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." [link:www.democraticunderground.com]

The study of history is not simply an exercise for idlers. It is instructive of human nature and events all to easily repeated if we persist in burying our heads in the sand.

"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." -- Wendell Phillips, (1811-1884)

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AZ Moderate

May. 28, 2006 at 10:33:04 PM

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You ignored a front burner issue, indi616:
0) Illegal Aliens and our National Sovereignty
1. Control the border!
2. Nail the illegal employers' hides to the wall!! Enforce the laws already on the books!!
3. Help the illegal alien population to re-migrate to Mexico by enforcing the laws already on the books!!!
4. Get tough with a Mexican government that is condoning and promoting this invasion.
[link:www.voiceofarizona.com]

1) Healthcare
Single payer universal coverage
Medicare for all.

2) The Iraq war. Was it justified? Was it conducted right? Do you feel like you were told the truth before the war began?
No! No! No!

3) Signing statements by the President?
See the Enabling Act that concentrated power in Hitler’s hands at [link:www.historyplace.com]

4) Spying on Americans?
Unconstitutional, but complementary to the Patriot Act in eroding checks and balances.

5) The growing national debt?
Disastrous for America, but a boon for the Chinese Central Bank.

6) Do tax cuts cut the deficit or contribute to the deficit?
Major contribution to the national debt. The deficit is more the borrow and spend Congress’ fault.

7) Are the tax cuts fair?
No. They favor the top crust wealthy and corporatists.

8) Outsourcing of jobs?
Short sighted if looked at in the context of America’s interests, but good for the Corporatists.

9) The status of education in America?
About the same as it has been for at least five (5) decades. Expect great gnashing of teeth and rending of garments by the politicians, and more of the same for the next five (5) decades.

10) Corruption in our government?
Turn every incumbent out. Absolutely every one. This would send a message to the new batch of elitist pompous arrogant self-interested fellow Americans that we ensconce within the beltway that we the people are not completely comatose.

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