Dec 7th, A day which will live....

Posted By: Hunter
Posted on: Dec. 7, 2006 at 6:52 PM

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With all the rage being the Iraq Study Group's report and hammering Bush, I thought I'd take a minute to remind everyone that the worst President in American History allowed the death of 2403 servicemen 65 years ago today to get American's to buy into a war the government wanted and members of my family bled for.

He placed over 130,000 citizens of this country in military controlled prison camps based solely on race. He suspended Habeas Corpus, imposed a draft, forced tougher wage and price controls, rationing and curfews, spying on Americans and Martial Law.

On December 6th, 1941 the American people were isolationists, wanting nothing to do with the war in Europe. On Dec 7th we wanted revenge and that blood lust was all orchestrated by this man, almost a year in advance!

Everything we fear from Bush, everything we suspect he's done, has already been perpetrated on America, and because this man threatened to pack the Supreme Court with like minded thinkers, the court systems upheld it all

But the lies and deceit, the martial law, the imprisonments and the fascist economic policies all pail in comparison to the one thing this man took from us which will destroy this country. In 1933 he made it illegal to own money, and gave us worthless paper to conduct business with.

Today that paper, backed by nothing, represents only a debt we all have to pay.

I do hope someday I can travel to Hyde Park, NY. and piss on this mans grave. Do you know who he is?

Dave

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prometheus

Dec. 7, 2006 at 08:45:13 PM

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George Bush the time traveler?

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AZRWinger

Dec. 7, 2006 at 09:21:28 PM

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Hunter, you forgot that before the war he secretly conspired with the head of a foriegn government to get the US involved in the war while campaigning on a platform of keeping us out of foreign wars, wiretapped domestic phone calls in direct contravention of the law and a contemporary Supreme Court decision and implemented a massive hidden tax Ponzi scheme called Social Security.

BTW After the war his sucessor's administration kept German detainees locked up at Ellis Island for another 2 years.

But hey, all's fair if your a Democrat!

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Average American

Dec. 7, 2006 at 09:59:28 PM

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And don't forget the Ponzi Scheme was put in place for one diabolical purpose, to keep Democrats in purpetual power. SO long as the people on SS were going to rely on the government they would have a built in voting block for all eternity...

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indie616

Dec. 7, 2006 at 10:00:23 PM

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WHERE IS HERBERT HOOVER WHEN YOU NEED HIM????!!!

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www.MoronInCharge.com

Dec. 8, 2006 at 01:20:43 AM

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During the Great Depression, one third of the available work force was unemployed. GNP and manufacturing output fell by 50% between 1929 and 1933. 9000 banks failed during those four years. Along with the drought and crop failures of the Great Dust Bowl, thousands of people starved to death, and millions were homeless.

During WWII we faced two militant dictatorships with not only the ambition, but the means to conquer the world.

We talk about the unprecidented threats that this country faces today because of things like rampant illegal immigration and growing terrorism, but I am willing to bet that our grandparents would have gladly traded their problems for ours. So when you attack FDR for making sweeping economic and social reforms, or for instating a draft or instituting rationing, keep in mind the circumstances that lead to such actions. Alternatives could have been a new American revolution during the Depression, or complete subjugation by a foreign power in the aftermath of a lost war.

I cannot and will not defend FDR if he in fact had foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor, whatever his rationalizations might have been. What is the conclusive evidence? Likewise, if Bush & Co. knew what was coming on 9-11 and exercised wanton neglect (or worse), the crime is nothing less than treason. I would like to find out, because in the later hypothetical, justice can still be rendered.

Internment of Japanese Americans during WWII was an overstep, clear and simple. It was wrong, shameful, and it simply was not necessary in retrospect. However, such an action is also not entirely unimaginable during a world war when there were documented Axis spies on our soil.

A little bit of economic perspective would also be helpful here. Just prior to the stock market crash of 1929, we were on a 100% Gold Standard. Becuase of the 1:1 exchangability of currency for gold, the amount of money in circulation was limited to our gold holdings, and the money supply was very rigid. When the stock market dove in October 1929 and people ran to the banks to retrieve and hoard their money, the money in circulation dropped dramatically, much faster than the government could compensate. Banks closed, people lost everything, businesses folded, and the Great Depression was on. The 100% Gold Standard actually produced the inflexibility in the money supply that contributed to and sustained the Depression. This depression was felt world wide since most of the world's nations were also on a 100% Gold Standard.

Theoretically - and I say theoretically because we have only theory to go on here - being off the gold standard protects us from a repeat of the Great Depression. It also enables economies to grow well beyond that allowable by the physically limited total quantitiy of gold on this planet, or any finite commodity-based currency standard for that matter. As I said before, there aint enough gold in the world to allow us to go back to the 100% gold standard, even if we wanted to. The world's economies have expanded far beyond the total wealth inherent in gold bullion. The only way to accomplish such a transition would be to immediately revalue gold to some multiple between 10 or 100 times its current price per troy ounce (which would likely create fantastic speculative instabilities in gold price and make gold fillings very expensive indeed), or to go to a fractional gold standard like we had before 1964. The later is hardly better than no gold stanard at all, because the anti-inflationary and echangibility benefits of the 100% gold standard are immensely diluted in a fractional gold standard system. This would explain why most of the world has left the gold standard and has not gone back. Maybe if we went to a commodity based standard where the commodity actually became more plentiful as we expanded economically, we could again tie our currency to something real and measurable. I nominate CO2.

As for the "ponzi" scheme of Social Security, we have been through this a hundred times already. A "ponzi" scheme implies that you are getting swindled. If you pay into SS for your parent's generation, and your children pay into SS for your generation, and so on, then no one gets swindled. If politicians "borrow" from the supposedly "lock-box" SS Trust Fund to "balance" their "creative" federal budgets, then there is indeed a "ponzi" scheme. Is that the fault of the Social Security Act as envisioned by FDR and enacted in 1935, or is that the fault of our current generation of politicos that treat the SS Trust Fund as their personal piggy bank?

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Phaedrus

Dec. 8, 2006 at 06:14:28 AM

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The biggest difference between FDR and Dubya would be that the war that FDR conspired to get the US into he won.

Dubya has lead the USA into the most complete tactical failure (Iraq) since Custer at Little Bighorn, and the only strategic loss in US history. From the beginning Iraq was going to be difficult because of religious infighting, and would serve as a rallying point for Al Queda recruiters and for anti Israeli Hezbollah and Hammas. It was going to destroy all the goodwill the US had built up from 9-11 in the Muslim world, because the anti US propaghanda could go back to playing the "USA wants our oil" card every picture of a dead Iraqi kid furthered that cause.

FDR planned for fighting enemies world wide, taking into account resources, manpower, our Allies' needs, and the care of the refugees created by the conflict.

Dubya doesn't give squat for anyone in Iraq besides the oil fields, and they did no planning for an occupation believing in the fairytale of flowers and choclates.

FDR sought out the best and brightest to work out policies that would create the best outcomes for the most Americans.

Dubya only listens to his sycophant neocon toadies, who tell him he can still win in Iraq, if only he doesn't change the policy. As if what we are doing is leading to victory.

Hunter, I'll go you one further, I'd like to piss on this turd Dubya while he is still alive.

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Phaedrus

Dec. 8, 2006 at 11:04:59 AM

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So, on SS, anyone want to bet me on the likelihood of their next Social Security check bouncing, or their next dividend check from Enron bouncing?

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www.MoronInCharge.com

Dec. 8, 2006 at 03:02:40 PM

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The biggest difference between FDR and Dubya would be that the war that FDR conspired to get the US into he won.

I hope this not the only distinguishing feature between the two men. First of all, like who killed JFK or the 9-11 Truth conspiracy, there are a lot of conjectures and insinuations about FDR allowing Pearl Harbor to happen in order to bring us into WWII, but I have seen no convincing evidence. Prove it to me, and I will piss on his grave myself. And really, is the only measure of right or wrong whether we win or lose? Some times the bad guy wins too.

But I will take this statement as intended. FDR was capable and intelligent. Bush is a dumbs**t. Point made.

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AZRWinger

Dec. 8, 2006 at 04:11:29 PM

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"As for the "ponzi" scheme of Social Security, we have been through this a hundred times already. A "ponzi" scheme implies that you are getting swindled."

There is no implication you are getting swindled with SS. SS is a swindle. It has been from the start when the age to receive benefits exceeded the typical lifespan. Someone mentioned Enron, they used Special Purpose Entities (SPE) to bury losses off the the balance sheet. The US government uses the SS trust fund as an SPE to hide excessive spending and then counts the bonds as an asset. An insurance policy that has no annuitization or assets, a looming huge unfunded liability, requires anyone with a job to contribute under threat of imprisionment and whose policyholders have no right to the benefits, is a swindlers dream come true. Any private organization using SS accounting would be disbanded and its leaders sent to jail.

"So when you attack FDR for making sweeping economic and social reforms, or for instating a draft or instituting rationing"

Government instituted "social reforms" are dictatorship in action. The FDR welfare state economic "reforms" programs weren't effective. But, the war was. So, using the same logic you apply to Bush, FDR must have planned the war.

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Phaedrus

Dec. 9, 2006 at 09:46:49 AM

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Actually Doc Moron, the US had cracked the Japanese code and had built an early computer to translate the code. They were therefore able to decipher the Japanese orders faster the Japanese were. FDR knew about the Japs impending declaration of war, and plans to attack the US. That is why they had issued orders to all US commanders in the Pacific to be on the look out for an attack.

They had no specific time when the attacks would come though, and felt it foolhardy and a waste of time to try an attack against ships in Pearl Harbor because the harbor was so shallow that torpedo planes couldn't be used. The Japs developed torpedos that need to go deep, and pulled off the world's all time greatest sucker punch.

More importantly, FDR's reforms were successful in a myriad of ways, the most important of which was HE WAS DOING SOMETHING. Decisive action and leadership can carry a nation through a lot of hardship. Hoover lacked the will.

1- FDR's first new program was the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, that restored faith in US banks. Without that people would have remained on a cash only basis, no lending, no credit.
2- The rural electrification and the Tennessee Valley Authority. Without this from Tallhassee, FL to St. Louis would still be a third world region.
3- The WPA put millions of young men who had no jobs to work, and got them out of bread lines.
4- Social Security ended people working at jobs until they were too old, feeble or sick to make it one more day. It opened up job oportunities for young men who had no jobs.

Bush has done what for America?
The Medicare part D- No Pharmaceutical Company Left Behind Act.
The Iraq War no bid contract, no oversight Leave No War Profitteer Behind Act.
He failed to be the Commander in Chief until after 9-11, and since then has failed to kill and destroy the trolls responsible.

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